We think about it and ….we grew up in Jasper, lived in Banff and worked in the backcountry, lived at the Ya Ha Tinda Ranch, worked for Ron Mannix west of Cochrane … then at the Bar U and now at the OH (Ranch). We’ve worked on some great historic ranches. We just think of it as another adventure on our journey.
Rod: Well I think there are a lot of people who envy your experiences….being in all those beautiful places and putting up with all the bad and the good of Parks Canada.
Ken: It comes with everything. (referring to the bad and the good)
Deb: Parks Canada is a part of our history too. Like I said, we grew up in a park. And lived in both Banff and Jasper and really enjoyed it and being at the Bar U was a great experience….so Parks Canada is kind of a part of us. And there are many good things about Parks Canada …..
Rod: Overall, it is a pretty good experience working for Parks Canada.
Deb: Parks Canada gave us the opportunity to live in some pretty wonderful places.
Ken: We’ve met so many nice people who worked for Parks …really good people. And we’ve kept in touch with a lot of them.
Rod: I think that is what we all appreciate about parks ….. you know, the people part of it…it is great to work in different national parks because of all the natural beauty and whatnot, but the people part of it is really a significant part.
Deb: Next year….for the 100 Anniversary (of the Ya Ha Tinda)….anyone who is associated with Parks Canada looks forward to it and everyone wants to go and reminisce and visit… it is those connections.
Perry: Those reunions we had were really terrific.
Rod: It has been almost 20 years since we had the one in 1997.
Ken: I remember when we had Cal’s retirement party (at the ranch) a lot of people showed up. The place was packed.
Perry: One thing I want to say about the Ya Ya Tinda staff … getting the right people to do that job was not easy. You had to have people like yourselves with backcountry experience …being able to make your own decisions. We just couldn’t hire anybody to run that ranch. And that was a challenge, it really was….to get the right people….that were comfortable with that kind of surrounding.
Ken: Mix is important.
Deb: If you did not get the right mix, it just didn’t work…you are on an isolated post. Some people came and went…some people stayed for quite a long time and we are all still friends today. But you have to make an effort when you are (working) in those kind of areas. We’d each host dinners… you’d worked together all day…but you’d say, “We’re having dinner at our place tonight”. The guys would go home, put on clean clothes, and, if they had little ones, the kids had to have a bath because they were “going out”. We were living right next door, but everybody made an effort. Halloween was very funny actually. Our kids were little and there were four houses at the ranch, including the bunkhouse. Larry Gilmar, a warden from Banff), would always leave a nice little bundle of candy for the kids. They’d run up to the (bunkhouse) door, knock on the door and yell “trick or treat!”. They knew nobody was in there and the lights were all off but they knew that Larry had left them something. They each had a bucket and they’d run in there and go get their treats and then run up to Grandpa Cal’s house next, then run over to Greg & Sue’s or Bev and Steve’s and then back to our house and we’d have everybody over for chili and the kids would have fun. We’d spend weeks sewing costumes for the kids. That’s what it is all about. If you don’t put that extra effort into it, it is just like anywhere else.
Rod: When you think of it that is so special compared to most people…they don’t even know their neighbor. They don’t even say hello to them, let alone have them over for dinner. Then the people you work with all day long to socialize with them is a terrific thing.
Deb: We’d take the team at Christmas time and bring hot chocolate and cookies and get the kids up on the wagon and go out and cut our Christmas trees as a group. These events are what made it special.
Ken: At Easter you’d hide all the eggs outside and make them hunt for eggs outside. You had to put effort into it. We made a skating rink up behind Cal’s house every year and we played hockey and skated all winter. The kids learned to play hockey from me and figure skate from Deb.
Perry: You didn’t have to depend on somebody else to do it. You really had to have special people that went into the Ya Ha Tinda because you just couldn’t send anybody out there.
Ken: It would drive Cal nuts….some of the things we did…he would just say, “What are you doing now?” Because he acted like an old bachelor…he didn’t care. …but we made an effort with everything.
Rod: It sounds like it was a great part of your life.
Ken: It is a part we’ll never forget.
Deb: You know, when our kids were in University…. Jessie was out in New Brunswick….Clinton, it was his last year at Lethbridge University and we called them up a couple of months before Christmas and asked them, “Do you want to go to the Ya Ha for Christmas?” Without question, they dropped the cellphones and they jumped at the chance… Rick and Jean were there, of course, at the time and Cal’s house was empty so that was perfect. They got to stay in Grandpa Cal’s house. We went and cut a tree and decorated it…just like we used to do. The kids were in their 20’s and that was still fun for them. There’s still a little fort that the kids built up behind Cal’s old house. No girls allowed in the fort…(Jessie went in anyway; she learned how to hold her ground early!) They called it the “Pigeon kids’ fort”. Marie Nylund wouldn’t let them take it down. (Marie said) “No, no! no! The Pigeon kids built that”.
Ken: They found an old window somewhere and they had it hay-wired into this fort…
Ken: But actually when our kids tell their friends, “You know, when we were little, all we had was a radio phone.” And their friends say, “Yeah, right.” And our kids say, “No, no we did. It was a two-way radio (YJ72424).” Or to change the television channel, I would send Clinton outside and he had to turn the antenna with a pipe wrench. We only had two channels. I’d say, “I can’t see the puck yet; you have to go one more turn…).” Kids of our kids’ age weren’t raised like that generally so it’s kind of a unique upbringing in today’s world. (The ranch now has an assortment of satellite dishes of all sizes providing internet and phone service at the ranch).
Deb: Elk would come in the yard and I wonder if I had a screw loose at the time…because I’d send Clinton out with his little air gun and he’d run out and shoot at them and he’d scatter the elk …. when I think about it now I wouldn’t do that to my grandkids…..(everyone laughs) Yeah, it was a pretty funny.
Perry: The anecdotes with the little kids will work well in this interview. They play such a big part.
Deb: We took our daughter-in-law Robyn, up there. And we said, “this is where Clint and Jessie were raised and she said, “Boy, this explains a lot.” (laughs).
Ken: We’d take the kids down to Scalp Creek in the winter and just up past the little falls are some nice chutes. You’d climb up the ice and give the kids a push and they’d go shooting down the ice on their pants. You could always find something to do.
Deb: I backpacked with the kids when they were tiny… all over the place. We hiked in the evenings in the summer, down Scalp Creek and found lots of fossils. I home schooled Clinton for Grade One and Grade Two. That was fun…and even Jess…she was only four but she wanted to be home-schooled too…so they did art work and other school projects. I’d duplicate some of Clinton’s stuff and give her some artwork to do. I’d mail it in to Barrhead and say, “this is from Clinton’s four year old sister and she would like her schoolwork marked as well please. They’d mark it and send it back (with a note) “Jessie, wonderful job.” When she got her schoolwork back in the mail she was thrilled to have received an ‘A’.
One cute story about the kids is …I had to go in and see the home-schooling coordinator in Sundre. Clinton was in Grade One. On our way into town we got a flat tire. So here’s Clinton is holding the manual for me….and I’m reading it and changing the tire because I wasn’t used to the new vehicle we had. Anyway, so we finally get into town and we go and visit with her. She is talking to Clinton and she says, “You know it’s spring time and there’s babies running everywhere; it’s so cute” and she’s kind of baby-talking to him a little bit. He looks at her and he says, “Well, we’ve got about 12 broodmares and they all caught but one so we should have about 11 foals”. He is talking like he is an adult because that is all he has been around and she gets fairly quiet…. (everyone laughs) When we did move to town finally and the kids went to school, the teachers always said, “You’re kids are very mature.” And I said they were always around adults when they were little and they had to fit in and they they were not around a lot of kids their age.
Rod: Remember a lot of other wardens in days gone by….a long time ago…when they lived in the isolated communities and districts, their children were home-schooled. They had some problems with the children, I can think of a few families….that the children felt kind of afraid of other children when they were exposed to them. And it is kind of interesting that yours didn’t seem to …..
Ken: When we first moved from the Ya Ha Tinda to Cochrane, the kids had to go to school in Springbank. It was quite an adjustment…it was an hour and 15 minutes each way on the bus….quite a change from home-schooling at the Ya Ha Tinda to school at Springbank.
Deb: This is the main reason we left the Ya Ha when we did because we didn’t want the kids become reserved and shy around other people. Now we can’t get them to be quiet!! Jessie is our social butterfly…
Perry: Quite a transition.
Deb: Clinton was not impressed because he had to go to school all day……when I home-schooled, we went from 9 am until noon and then he was free to go fishing or with his dad to do chores. He’d go first thing in the morning to do chores and he was a very conscientious little guy and he’d say, “Dad what time is it?
Ken would say, “It’s ten to nine.” … and Clinton would say, “I have school. I have to go.” Most kids…like Leaf and Oak Plested weren’t interested in school and they’d be gone fishing.
Ken: They’d sneak out in the morning with their fishing poles.
Deb: Oak, Leaf, Dawn and Brook….those are the four Plested kids. But with Clint, he’d say, “But, I have school!”. And I remember one time I was feeling under the weather and he came back in and it was five minutes to nine ….he was never late… and I had gone back to bed. And he just had a fit. “Mom! I have school!” And I said, (jokingly) “Oh Lord, take a valium!” (laughing)
Rod: It is nice when they are that enthusiastic.
Deb: But actually, when we did get to Springbank…. he was in Grade Three….they thought he was a little native boy because his last name was Pigeon. And so he walks in….a little blond haired guy….and they said, “Well, you aren’t Clinton Pigeon.” And he says, “Yes I am.” They were expecting a little native boy. Of course, they asked me to go and volunteer which they always do at school so I had said yes. So Clinton comes home the next day and Clinton is just beside himself and I said, “Bud, What’s the matter?” He said, “Mom, you’re going to come and volunteer?” I said, “Yes” and he said, “But you are not going to like it.” And I said, “Why not?” And he said, “ Because those kids don’t listen!” (Laughing). So, I said to Ken, “Was I a little hard on him as his teacher?” Clinton was just mortified that those kids would not listen. Too funny!
Perry: One of the things that amazed me when you guys were at the ranch was that people were made so welcome, especially the wardens, and I often thought that here you are 50 miles from the nearest town….you don’t have a corner store…. bringing in your grub…and you never knew how many hungry wardens were going to show up you know. It must have been a challenge to….
Ken: She was amazing. In the one house there was this little cold storage room. She used to actually rotate everything on the cold storage….and the freezer…and Deb baked like crazy in those days….
Deb: I always had stuff in the freezer. I had cooked in the backcountry prior to coming to the Ya Ha. And yeah, I had cooked for Trail Crew for Parks Canada in Banff….and cooked for Warner for big groups in the backcountry so I was a little more familiar with (cooking in isolated areas). Ken says I act like a “Bush Billie” half the time anyways. …
Perry: Well, you didn’t have a corner store to run to for a quart of milk.
Ken: No. You had to be prepared.
Deb: And you learned to make do with what you had…if you were out of something just make something else. Figure it out.
A friend of mine, she cooked for many years on the trail and Margie Duncan always said, “Oh well, if you make something and it doesn’t turn out; give it a different name and serve it anyway.” (laughs). So you learn to adapt and be adaptable.
Ken: You got so you’d stay at the ranch on your days off just to save yourself that trip in and out, you know. It (the trip out) was brutal some days.
Ken: There was that one warden who rode in to the ranch and had his saddlebags wired for sound? He came riding in there (to the ranch) one time….he had this great big sheepskin on his saddle and he had 12 volt batteries in his saddle bags and he had these wires running through his saddle…and they were weaved through everything so that he could listen to whatever…. And I thought Cal was going to have a heart attack, I honestly did. Holy shit.
That was the same time that Doug Martin came out when the strike was happening.
And he was going to tell us about the strike; and Cal ran him off. I can’t believe how rude he got. It was right now and he said, “These damn horses don’t give a shit what you do whether you strike. They need to be fed and to be fed every day. You can get in your truck and get off this ranch now!” And he meant it. He was instantly fired up and he was mad. He chased him off and then Cal went for days off….and me and (Steve) Bennett get this wise idea….we’ll get Cal. So we take the tractor down and we park it right in front of the main gate and we put a plywood sign in the bucket that said: ON STRIKE. Oh, he was not very happy with us.
Deb: Kurt Seel’s son, I’ve forgotten his name now, but he was in University at the time and he came out with Kurt for a little bit. He drew up the “Ya Ha Tinda” flag and it had this kind of comical elk with “two guns crossed on it.
Ken: We sent that letter in to the Director General saying we were not going to strike. And we sent it with this flag and that didn’t go over real well.
Rod: You mentioned Gordy Peyto. Can you tell us a Gordy Peyto story; I worked with him for a while.
He is such a character.
Ken: (to Deb) Do you want to tell it?
Deb: Well, when we left the Ya Ha we went to work west of Cochrane for Ron Mannix. Actually, prior to us leaving (the ranch), Dale Loewen had brought Isaac, one of the old horses, out for the kids. Dale said, “I don’t what them riding him anymore. He’s quiet and has paid his dues in the park and I just want him to be here for the kids.” So, our kids rode him bareback with just a string around his neck half the time all over the yard so Isaac was kind of their horse. Then, of course, we left the Ya Ha and we had to leave Isaac. We were going to Willow West Farms to work for Mannix so we’d been there for probably three or four months when in pulls a Parks Canada truck and horse trailer and Gordy is knocking at the door. I asked, “What are you doing? He says, “I am officially a horse thief!” We said “what did you do?” He said, “I have Isaac in the back for your kids. He drove up there and told Johnny and Marie, “That’s the Pigeon kids horse, that was what he was brought here for. I am putting him in the back and he’s going to Willow West Farms.”
Ken: So he dropped him off.
Deb: The kids rode Isaac for probably a year or two I think. And then one nice beautiful summer day we went out there and called the horses in and Isaac didn’t come. We walked out and he had just layed down on a little hill and passed away.
Perry: He must have been 24 or 25 years old then.
Ken: Twenty-seven. I think.
Deb: So, Gordy said he was officially a horse thief. That story holds a special place (in our hearts).
Rod: I want to thank you again. Is there any other questions?
Deb: I can’t think of anything else. There is a ton of stories – we could go on all night.
Rod: Thanks for taking the time to talk to us. This will be part of the Ya Ha Tinda book.
Ken: We have a lot of photos and Kathy is welcome to contact us. We have a lot of photos of Cal Hayes.
Rod: We are looking for photos. Marie was saying we need more information on Cal and photos are a huge part of that.
Ken: We have group pictures of some of the first warden schools.
