I think, I worked maybe a year or two after we split off with the firearms issue. I basically skated out of that whole thing because we weren’t going to be armed working on the West Coast Trail anyway. It was more search and rescue oriented and very little law enforcement. So yeah, I just sort of skated around that whole (situation) which was very controversial and still is I think. It definitely changed the warden service. There is no doubt about it. If you’ve talked to some of the mountain guys, they probably are even more passionate about that. I think it was really unfortunate the way it went. It is quite sad actually what happened, but that is life isn’t it?
“I was talking to Ron Davies a few weeks ago and he was a warden in Prince Albert. He is 85 and his big thing was centralization, when they moved them in from the districts and how that changed things with the warden service, but he said like you did, that is life right?”
In fact, I just started up when the whole centralization thing had happened and of course Mac was rolled up in that and Gord McClain who was a Jasper warden and our senior guy at Pacific Rim when I showed up. He was living up in the Brazeau with his wife. It was unbelievable their life you know that they had, it was absolutely an incredible life. He got pulled into the town when that all happened, a big change yeah.
“Did more women come onto the service in Pacific Rim when you were there?”
(33:00) Oh yeah, absolutely and actually that was a great change. I think it was one of the best things that ever happened. I had some great people working with me…I think if we had five people working down the trail, quite often three of them would be women. They were great, they were really, really good. Most of them are guides now, or working up north. They are doing all sorts of stuff…I was really happy to have women become more involved in the warden service. I had Melanie Hindle working for me, (warden) Murray Hindle’s daughter. She is out east now, in Riding Mountain I think…
And Rundi (Anderson), I knew her dad from Jasper and then Rundi ending up working with me. So yeah, it was just like incredible you know…I ended up with the first female (working) on the West Coast Trail in 1995. Her name was Diana Ghikas.
“Do you know if she is still with the wardens?”
She isn’t no…I don’t know where Diana went. She might have gone with the provincial government doing something. Then the next person was Rundi. She’s had an interesting career too. And then I ended up with Melanie Hindle and I think Jenny Rudisil and I think that she is with the federal government up north. It was great you know, they were really, really good. All the women I worked with were topnotch, absolutely topnotch! They were setting the standard for sure! Really good, really good with people, good decision makers I found.
“Can you tell me your official title when you retired? Were you called a warden?’
(35:58) When they split, I wasn’t a warden anymore because the wardens were just law enforcement. I was the public safety specialist, I think that it what they called me! Yes it was, pretty much.
“What about the warden service was important to you? You mentioned keeping people safe.”.
(36:43) I think that, and I think that and my wife is the same way, we were really passionate about the environment and the wild places. I think there were a lot of people like that too. We really felt strongly about how important national parks were…Heather and I talk about it every now and then, and we think boy, we were really in the minority as part of the general population. Most people I don’t think it ever crosses their mind, (national parks) are just a place to camp and drink. We were really passionate about national parks and protecting them. That was a big thing…It is a big responsibility to try and protect them you know and keep the things that can damage them out and control the things that are going on so that they don’t get damaged. I know that we always ended up in a little bit of trouble. In fact many people believe that they were very, very happy to kind of disenfranchise the warden service because we were always a bit of a thorn. I knew that we were too. Throughout my career there were lots of issues that crept up that the warden service put a kibosh on because it was development oriented or incorrect development. I know in many cases we were the only voices crying out from the wild saying, “Whoa! This isn’t appropriate.” I know that that happened in the mountains a lot because I talked to the guys down there and they ended up butting heads a lot with development and trying to keep it under control. It was the wardens in many cases who were very strong voices for preserving what we had. In many ways, I think that they are very happy to see us all gone…And we had some power. They didn’t like that either because we had a bit of enforcement power. We actually could enforce things. We had some authority, legislated authority so it did sort of give us an edge in protection. Yeah, they didn’t like that!
“You mentioned a few names, is there anyone else from the service that really stands out in your mind?”
(39:48) Yeah, there’s a few. (Scotty Ward is one for sure, a great guy. Gord McClain, also a really good guy. Willi Pfisterer and Peter Fuhrmann I think were an institution. They trained a lot of park wardens in the ways of the mountains, hundreds and hundreds. They were really crucial in bringing the warden service from horsemen into doing more sophisticated search and rescue work, especially in the mountains. They were very interesting guys! I worked with Bob Hanson and I really enjoyed working with Bob. Bob went to school with me and he was a good guy…I think Bob just retired this year. He also worked up north a little bit. He had an interesting thing going. He was working with the federal government up north for the last two or three years. Bob’s in Tofino. The other fellow I spent a lot of time with and did a lot of stuff with was Dan Vedova. He was a Banff seasonal warden and was around when real characters were in Banff, that your dad would know and remember. He was involved in that big bear mauling that shook the roots of Banff there, back in the late 1970s. He was involved in that big hunt for that bear, so Dan was out there. Another guy who was a really good warden that I worked with, younger he’s gone now too from the warden service was Jeff Carrow. He was a Jasper warden who ended up working on the West Coast (trail). I did a lot of stuff with Jeff and he was really forward thinking in helping move the West Coast trail out of the 1970s into the 2000s. I think a lot of stuff that people think I did, was actually Jeff putting the bug in my ear! Jeff Carrow was a great guy. Jeff Carrow is in Victoria and Dan Vedova is in Ucleulet. There was a good group of people there that I enjoyed working with. Mike Grandi worked with me. He’s in Banff. Mike was a great guy, a good self starter, oh, there are lots.
“Is there anything about the warden service as you knew it, that you would want future generations to know?”
(43:20) Well I think two things, one and we talked about that, is how incredibly passionate everyone was about protecting the environment and protecting ParksThe other thing is what a great work ethic many, many of them had, just unbelievable. When I hear the stories about the guys out on the districts, what they did, the snowshoeing and the hiking and the trips that they did and the hard stuff that they pulled off. You know when you look at what Tim Auger and Clair and some of those guys did and are still doing in the mountains, it is amazing, the accomplishments of some of the people.
“I don’t know if there is anything that you would like to add about what made the warden service such a unique organization?”
(44:31) I think it was the people and the passion for sure.
(44:46) I think it was probably being out on the water in a boat in different kinds of weather, with a crew in the boat heading somewhere to go and do something.
“Do you have any lasting memories of your time as a warden?”
(45:09) Well it’s funny…because many people told me they said, “You’re going to have a hard time retiring buddy because you have been so involved and so immersed for 30 years in what you do, and you worked with a team of people.
Do you ever miss being a warden?
When you retire what the hell are you going to do with yourself?” I did some reading and checking into it and went maybe I am going to have a hard time? So I work on the ski patrol in the winter up at the ski resort and it kind of keeps me in the search and rescue, first aid game a little bit. I do some of that in the winter time. Since the organization changed so dramatically I am actually glad that I am out, but I do miss the people. They are really, really good people. I do miss the camaraderie and the training schools and getting together with the gang and maybe four or five people or half a dozen people pulling together to pull off a rescue. Or the big searches always stand out when you’ve got 20 or 30 people and volunteers and somebody calling the shots and making decisions and up late at night, hiking somewhere with a headlamp. It is kind of exciting stuff, so you do sort of miss that.
“I know your wife was involved with Parks, did she enjoy the warden life as well? Did she worry about you on these big rescues or being out on the boat in all kinds of weather”?
(46:56) Yeah, I think she did a little bit, but she didn’t say much. She was pretty good actually, I would say the classic warden wife! She had her career too which was good and we didn’t have kids. In some ways it made it easier to do what I did because for whatever reason we just didn’t end up with kids. We got married older, but we didn’t end up with kids. I probably would not have been able to have the working career that I did if I had kids. Heather really enjoyed her job and she was busy too, but I think she did worry about me a little bit, but she was pretty good about it…And I was away a lot and that was hard on Heather because essentially for almost eight months of the year, I was gone from home and I worked a ten and four. Towards the end of my career we ended up working an eight and six and I did end up with more time at home. But I would be gone for eight days at a time and then quite often when I got home, you know what it is like all of a sudden there is phone call and then you are back in at work doing your thing.
“Thank you. Those are all my questions, is there anything that you would like to add?”
(48:38) The other thing I didn’t mention was the dog masters. I enjoyed working with those guys and they were great too. I knew Scotty quite well and I knew Gord Peyto and I knew Dale Portman. I used to go on ski tours with him. The dog masters were great!
“Would you use them on the west coast or was it more so in the mountains?”
The dog masters I kind of forgot about them, but they figured large in the whole role of things. It was in the mountains yeah. We didn’t have one at Pacific Rim; unfortunately there wasn’t a budget for it. We did end up using them, but they were all RCMP dog masters.
